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Everything You Need to Know About SIBO Breath Tests

Everything You Need to Know About SIBO Breath Tests

SIBO breath testing has been the subject of some pushback within the wider medical group. At this time’s episode discusses a number of the controversy across the effectiveness of breath testing, when it’s value doing, how to ensure your outcomes are accurate, and what other checks could be higher at attending to the bottom of your gut points.

Joining me is Dr. Patrick Fratellone, a useful cardiologist and herbalist who used to apply with the late Dr. Robert C. Atkins. He takes us by way of how he does his intestine detective work as a useful drugs physician, together with what complete exams on genetics, vitamin ranges and intestinal permeability can inform you about your greater intestine image.

In the event you’re someone who’s been debating whether or to not get a breath check for SIBO, this episode may enable you to weigh that decision.

A fast taste of what we’ll cover:

  • Whether or not doing a SIBO breath check is value your time, cash and power
  • What other exams are vital to determine how your small intestine is functioning
  • Why vitamin D ranges are nice indicators of your intestine well being
  • How Dr. Fratellone goes by way of his means of elimination (hint: SIBO isn’t the primary situation to rule out)
  • MTHFR genes and what they inform you about your health image, including SIBO
  • Genetic origins of IBS and the right way to check for them
  • Candida versus SIBO: the right way to tell the distinction
  • Testing for leaky gut / intestinal permeability and why it’s essential
  • The way to prepare correctly for a SIBO breath check so your outcomes are correct
  • IGG reactivity testing and what it truly tells you

Assets, mentions and notes:

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PHOEBE: Thank you so much for approaching the show, Dr. Fratellone. To get individuals acquainted together with your work and your apply, I know you’re a heart specialist by training but in addition practise inner drugs. Just tell us somewhat bit about how you got into more the integrative aspect, and how you’d describe your strategy at this time?

DR. FRATELLONE: It really dates again to once I was a child as a result of I was born with a heart defect and I used to be a blue child, and the way my mother and father, within the late ’50s surgery wasn’t that nice, my grandmother and my mother gave me a variety of herbs since I was a kid. I’ve been utilizing herbs, unknown to me, from a younger age. I all the time needed to be a physician, and I truly needed to be in infectious illness, so I sought out to do an inner drugs – after medical faculty, inner drugs. I went to medical faculty in England, which I feel advanced my information of that they take a better care of the sufferers because they really speak to the patients. I went to high school there, came again to the USA, did inner drugs, infectious illness, cardiology.

My first medical companion was the late Robert Atkins of the Atkins Eating regimen. We labored together for numerous years, and despite the fact that individuals know him as a weight loss plan physician, he was the one who advised me, or taught me about supplements. We wrote a couple of books together. He had a e-book referred to as the Vita-Nutrient Answer. We had a radio show, so doing this type of podcast, it’s not new to me as a result of I’ve been doing radio with Dr. Atkins all these years we have been on WOR.

He launched me to a physician on one of many exhibits named Andrew Weil. When Dr. Atkins handed away and I inherited his apply, I then went to do a fellowship with Dr. Weil, the primary fellowship of integrative drugs. I stayed in Arizona, I met him, and identical to I did a fellowship in cardiology, I now did a fellowship in integrative drugs. I discovered extra concerning the subjects we’re going to speak about, but I also met somebody there who change my life, Tieraona Low Dog. Have you learnt here?

PHOEBE: I do. Not personally, however I know her work. She’s superb.

DR. FRATELLONE: She’s great. She was one among my – she was the professor of botanical drugs and a socio professor on the faculty, and she or he satisfied me once I completed this fellowship that I might be great being an herbologist. I then did lots of herb programs, and through her and thru one other herbalist named 7Song in Ithaca, I utilized to The American Natural Guild professional member to get a registered herbalist degree. Not only am I fellow of cardiology, a fellow of integrative drugs, I truly am extra proud to say that I’m a herbalist.

From that I did different programs, however I might say I exploit a special strategy, together with SIBO and coronary heart illness, utilizing herbs more than medicines. That was how I began.

PHOEBE: Yeah, you’re not alone there, definitely for SIBO. In the present day we are going to concentrate on the topic of testing. I know some of your patients. I know you do a very thorough job of testing! I needed to to start with just reply the query that I get asked from lots of people, which is why is it even essential to test for SIBO within the first place? A few of these individuals are getting practitioners who assume it’s higher to only skip immediately to remedy. I need to just speak about what the testing options are later, but first, what is the argument to even start with a check?

DR. FRATELLONE: I’ll take a step back. You start with the check, but you actually have to seek out out – because the gut is the gateway of all illness, you need to learn how the gut is working. Once I say gut, I’m talking concerning the small intestines. You must do some preliminary blood work before you check for SIBO to see if the intestine is leaky, leaky gut, or malabsorbing. Although there’s many illnesses, corresponding to sprue, celiac, irritable bowl, Crohn’s, ulcerative colitis, you continue to need to get the essential physiology. I feel physicians miss that they’ve to seek out out if the essential physiology of the small intestines is working.
When a patient comes here, and though they assume they have SIBO, I need to find out is the intestine infected, and what is the insult to the gut? The first thing I do is straightforward blood checks, examination of the patient, good history, and blood checks. The first blood check that provides you a clue is the vitamin D degree. When you get a low vitamin D you realize that the three features of the intestine are compromised. One perform of the intestine is absorption, second is vitamin D, making vitamin D3, and the third perform of the intestine, which is [04:48] SIBO, is neurotransmitters.
We all know that 90% of neurotransmitters are made within the intestine and journey to the mind, so this is the intestine–brain connection. I feel you must know that earlier than you start treating SIBO as a result of they’ve now came upon that sure bacteria are prime – you want certain bacteria to make these neurotransmitters, so I do this first.


PHOEBE: Might the vitamin D be low for another cause than a broken gut?

DR. FRATELLONE: Yeah, nicely, low, once I imply low – everyone thinks that vitamin – all of us have a low vitamin D in the northeast where I reside, and that’s about 35 to 40, however there’s not many reasons the place vitamin D is in the 9s, 10s and 12s. Meaning there’s an insult to the gut. My job, when you get a D that low, earlier than considering of SIBO, which I’m going to think about anyway, I need to heal the gut from any insults first.

Now, if all those issues which are insulting the intestine are unfavorable, that’s whenever you consider SIBO. I feel we go – I don’t go to SIBO instantly because I need to go to heavy metals, I need to go to autoimmune, I need to go to EBV, which is within the news lots immediately, I need to go to Lyme illness. If I get all damaging outcomes for that, then I’m saying, oh my God, this can be a SIBO drawback that we’ve got small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, perhaps because the affected person’s been taking the same probiotic for 20 years and not rotating it.

PHOEBE: When it comes to testing for all the issues that you simply just listed, is that just a very complete blood check, it’s all executed by means of blood?

DR. FRATELLONE: Sure, they do a comprehensive blood check taking a look at vitamin D, B12, folic acid, but the other check that ought to be a part of each workup is to verify if the individual has a methylation drawback. I do methylation blood testing as a result of if the individual has a methylation drawback of MTHFR, whether it’s the 677 gene of the 1298, meaning the individual can’t detox. Meaning undoubtedly one thing is toxic within the small intestines causing the low vitamin D that could possibly be SIBO, but then additionally I need to rule out different things.

I all the time get a methylation preliminary check on sufferers, on a regular basis, because it is current in 40% of the population. I don’t assume lots of docs consider all that. I feel they go – some docs, the GI – nicely, now the GI – the gastroenterologists at the moment are making an attempt to get on the bandwagon, the place me as a useful drugs individual have been doing this for a very long time. My sufferers are educating their own docs to treat SIBO.

PHOEBE: If SIBO might cause a few of these issues, like not detoxing properly, why not begin there? Why look into all of these causes that might be downstream damager results?

DR. FRATELLONE: SIBO might trigger all this, but what happens if we treat for the SIBO and the individual doesn’t get better? I moderately do a comprehensive strategy from the beginning, embrace all the stuff and SIBO, just not go directly to SIBO because individuals, if they’ve methylation issues, meaning they’ve heavy metals. If they have a methylation drawback they by no means removed their Epstein-Barr. All of this plays a task in SIBO.

I do know you’re making an attempt to distinguish it, however to me it’s all of the – my job is to seek out out why the intestine is insulted, and repair and restore the intestine. Mine is a extra comprehensive strategy that may embrace SIBO testing though it’s not that good.

PHOEBE: Great, we’re skipping to the controversial questions that I had written down as nicely!


DR. FRATELLONE: Properly, no, however we all know – look, I feel only lately resulting from some – testing in drugs, whether I speak about SIBO testing or Lyme testing, we’re lacking some issues, however let’s get to the essential factor. If I informed you the gut is the gateway of all inflammation, we should always actually be comprehensive. I feel each physician who treats any illness should start within the gut first.

PHOEBE: In addition to the blood check, what are a few of your favorite different exams for getting a good idea of different kinds of dysbiosis? Do you like some kind of stool check? I’m curious.

DR. FRATELLONE: Yes, I do, and I don’t just decide a stool check from a lab. I’ll decide Genova Diagnostics because it’s a complete stool check. I will decide – I’ll do an H. pylori breath check or a stool evaluation. If I don’t find – I do parasitologist evaluation. If I don’t find a parasite but the individual has all the signs of parasite, I’ll ship the individual to get a rectal swab for parasites and truly take a look at the stool underneath the microscope.

PHOEBE: Do you ever use a GI-MAPs check, something that may – I don’t understand how that stacks up to different exams?

DR. FRATELLONE: No, I don’t use that because the factor is I feel that makes it too cook-book.
PHOEBE: What does that mean?

DR. FRATELLONE: I feel it’s a must to do totally different kinds of exams, so right now Genova’s an excellent one, but there’s different stool evaluation checks by Metagenics which are good. There’s one coming out by Thorne Analysis which is known as [One Genetics]. It’s a greater evaluation proper now for SIBO than what we already have on the market.

PHOEBE: Is that one you need to get via a physician or is it certainly one of these at-home kits?

DR. FRATELLONE: No, it’s a must to get it by means of a physician. It’s taking a look at genes, microbes, metagenes, and the pathology of irritable bowel by doing one stool pattern versus three from Genova. It is pricey. It’s about $395 dollars. The factor I don’t like about it, it takes six weeks to get the end result again, so that’s the only thing, however I feel it’s a very good assessment.

PHOEBE: I feel that is actually fascinating. I feel a lot of people, I wouldn’t say get misled, but run into points down the line as a result of they’ve been recognized with SIBO and then no one even thinks to research further into what the basis causes are. I feel it’s great that you simply’re starting with what all of the potential root causes might be, after which ultimately, upon getting the complete image, getting to SIBO.

DR. FRATELLONE: I embrace SIBO, but I don’t need to be one in every of these docs, and there are some GI individuals on the market, that once they can’t figure it out because they didn’t feel like doing the work, mechanically they go on remedy. Our practical drugs mannequin is the triggers of foods. When you consider it, is there genetics associated with all this? What has been their weight-reduction plan? What food allergens have they got? What toxins do they have? What are biological mediators, like [cytokinin]. This check gets the whole lot.

PHOEBE: How does that inform you about SIBO? How do the genetics –

DR. FRATELLONE: These are the triggers, so when you consider IBS as a useful drugs mannequin, you first take a look at genetics, you then take a look at the triggers, after which if you take a look at the biological mediators, whether you’re taking a look at cytokines, neurotransmitters, free radical, all of this is the reason for irritable bowel. The essential lab work we get. You possibly can do the fecal occult blood, you might do a breath check, you may do lactulose, however to do gut microbiome by DNA sequencing, that tells us what’s happening within the system. That’s what this check is all about.

PHOEBE: Would you go as far as to say is that the breath checks are a waste of time for individuals for many who perhaps can’t afford to have a practical drugs physician doing as in-depth testing as you’re? What can individuals take away from only a simple SIBO breath check?

DR. FRATELLONE: I feel a easy SIBO breath check might assist us make the analysis, however what it’s not telling you is that there are 60 or more genes which might be concerned in IBS which is affecting SIBO, similar to serotonin, [12:32]so it’s only supplying you with slightly picture. I feel the breath check just provides us a analysis and slightly picture, it’s not expanding the whole position of the intestine. I feel it’s good for the individual, you’re proper, in case you can’t afford going to see a useful drugs physician, we now have to start out someplace. You start with the blood check, you start with a simple breath check, and perhaps you’ll do some stool testing, however that doesn’t give you the full reply of what’s happening with the gut.

PHOEBE: You’re primary suggestion proper now’s the Thorne Onegevity check for the one-stop shop, but for those who can’t get that, for positive the blood work and the breath check?

DR. FRATELLONE: Blood work and testing, there we now have it. You realize what, everybody does not have the power to get this type of check, and gastroenterologists are usually not going to use this because they don’t have time to do gene work and taking a look at what micro organism produces what neurotransmitter, so they may get the essential testing. That’s ok, that’s ok. I feel we’ve missed SIBO over these years as a result of no one considered it.

PHOEBE: That’s truly getting again to the controversial aspect of issues. There are some people who assume that the breath check isn’t truly measuring SIBO and it’s creating a precedent for this fad that will not truly exist.

DR. FRATELLONE: I agree with that because I feel that’s… You’re giving a illness to individuals based mostly on a check that isn’t particular for SIBO.

PHOEBE: So what’s being measured? How does it work?


DR. FRATELLONE: You’re making a analysis of overgrowth, but you’re really not moving into what bacteria, and you’re not stepping into the essential pathophysiology of SIBO. You’re simply saying, okay, you will have SIBO, we’re going to deal with you. I feel it’s like a cookie-cutter thing, the check is cookie-cutter. It provides you a analysis and you treat. I do know people who have gone to gastroenterologists, acquired the lactulose check, received handled for SIBO, did rounds of antibiotics, and three months later they feel simply as worse as they did after they completed an entire spherical of remedy.

PHOEBE: I feel that’s quite common. What’s occurring in that case?

DR. FRATELLONE: The check is just treating it, it’s not wanting at the gut microbiome. It’s not wanting on the metabolic variables and the medical phenotypes of all of the bacteria. I feel it’s just treating. It’s type of like, you could have thyroid illness; treat with Synthroid – which isn’t what I do, however I’m making an attempt to make an analogy. You’ve got coronary heart illness; let’s deal with the cholesterol. You’re not wanting at the entire image.

PHOEBE: When it comes to getting the breath – the argument of getting the breath check to determine when you’re hydrogen or methane dominant, do you assume that’s a worthwhile thing to do as a the first step?

DR. FRATELLONE: I feel that’s a primary check to start out because it provides you an concept. I’m simply considering, since this check has come out – and I really didn’t imply to talk about it, I forgot the subject was on SIBO, however when you consider it, that’s the beginning, however if in case you have one thing else, then we should always use one thing else. Because that we all know the hypothesis is that an imbalance in the intestine results in dysbiosis. We know that. That leads to activation of the gut immune system and low-grade irritation. I feel we all know that, but instantly we slightly give a remedy, or let’s say oh, it’s resulting from whether you’re producing methane or not, and this is SIBO.

I feel the gut is extra difficult than that. Let’s face it, we’re speaking about 50 billion micro organism right here, so how are we going responsible it on one thing? I feel it’s multifactorial. There’s plenty of knowledge to recommend that even fungi play a higher position in SIBO than the actual intestinal pathogens.

PHOEBE: I’m glad you introduced that up because I’ve talked about it on other episodes with other physicians about how do you distinguish between SIBO and SIFO or Candida.

DR. FRATELLONE: This is the reason I feel this check ought to be completed because it will inform you – with out doing 5 totally different exams. The problem with testing is that sure states do not permit it. For example, Onegevity just isn’t licensed in the state of New York and New Jersey. It’s solely licensed in Connecticut. Nicely, I’ve a Connecticut license and I simply opened a apply in Connecticut, so I’m bringing the Onegevity kits into New York and I’m going to get it carried out, but I’ve to mail them from Connecticut.

PHOEBE: You’re already citing so many hurdles that folks have to jump by means of simply to clearly get the perfect complete testing, which is why I do assume I do need to get again to only the straightforward SIBO breath check for a second!

DR. FRATELLONE: Look, I feel in all equity, the straightforward breath check is a place to start out. Give the doctor a clue that there is a risk of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, it’s commonly accepted by insurance, it’s coated, and also you start there. I agree with that 100%.

PHOEBE: Let’s dive in additional for perhaps somebody who’s making an attempt to DIY at house, which is clearly never beneficial but is a actuality. Do you will have a place on whether to make use of lactulose or to do different substrates as nicely, or is lactulose you assume the most effective start line?

DR. FRATELLONE: I feel lactulose is probably the most commonly used and it’s the one that we – there’s more studies with it, however you might do a lactulose or glucose, and determine in case you’re going to [do it for] hydrogen or methane SIBO production, but that’s that. I feel you must do the lactulose:mannitol check for testing of permeability.

PHOEBE: That’s the check for leaky intestine?

DR. FRATELLONE: Yeah. I feel you not only have to do a breath check – say we do lactulose, it’s very common, it’s coated, do it, however then it’s a must to do an intestinal permeability check.

PHOEBE: What further does that inform you, since I do know lots of people’s considering is if in case you have SIBO you in all probability have leaky gut, you’re going to need to fix that anyway?

DR. FRATELLONE: You do, but I need to know to what diploma. Pay attention, I’m a cardiologist doing this! I do know extra about gastrointestinal disease now than I did in medical faculty. The thing is, yes, you’re right, individuals will say properly, why are you going to do another check? I need to find how dangerous your dysbiosis or leaky intestine is. And leaky gut is thrown round an excessive amount of, that term. By me doing the lactulose:mannitol check, I’m discovering out the diploma of intestinal permeability and how dangerous this so-called leaky gut is.

PHOEBE: How do you deal with from there, simply when it comes to the leaky gut?


DR. FRATELLONE: I’ll offer you – we’re going to do typical remedy, however let’s do herbal remedy first. The job is to – how do you treat leaky intestine? Eliminate the offending substances. Improve the vitamin D by giving liquid vitamin D as a result of it’s higher absorbed. In the event you give liquid vitamin D, vitamin D goes up, meaning more serotonin shall be made within the gut and journey to the mind. The extra serotonin travels to the brain, epinephrine shall be higher, you’ll be more targeted, much less anxious. It’s a must to use vitamin D.

You need to additionally use glutamine. Glutamine is an amino acid that does assist with the intestine. In the event you’re going to make use of a probiotic, I exploit one that’s powdered as a result of anyone with leaky gut, you’re not going to offer them tablets. I do know docs that prescribe an entire bunch of nutritional vitamins for the individual, they’ve leaky intestine, they usually’re all tablets they usually’re not being absorbed. My beginning remedy for leaky intestine is the whole lot is in liquid or powder type. One of the simplest ways to get issues in for the intestine, and there’s been research, why not use what Mother Earth gave us, use a bunch of herbs.

I make teas. Not tinctures because tinctures might worsen it, because when you have alcohol in a tincture it aggravates the gut. When you have glycerine in the tincture it aggravates the intestine. You would do this afterward, however I make teas for individuals, individualized teas. The tea for one individual could be, let’s say, slippery elm, which is Ulmus, with meadowsweet, with catnip because catnip is great for Crohn’s. If an individual doesn’t have Crohn’s and it’s leaky intestine resulting from ulcer colitis, I might perhaps use meadowsweet, marshmallow, and slippery elm. I exploit a number of teas to heal the gut.

PHOEBE: That’s really fascinating. I assume my query is, again for perhaps individuals at house who don’t need to do all of the checks, I do know we need to perceive how dangerous the leaky gut is, however isn’t there an argument to be made that if in case you have SIBO you’re in all probability higher off doing the liquid or the powder strategy anyway?

DR. FRATELLONE: Right, yeah, you’re proper. I’ll offer you that. I just need to say it the best way I do it because [if] there’s a – I’m considering of – [21:06] is that don’t give a pill in case you have a gut drawback. Give something that can be absorbed. Yeah, you assume you don’t have to do the check on permeability, but I have to know what number of weeks am I going to deal with them with herbs, what number of weeks am I going to provide them glutamine, how much glutamine, so that’s why I need to do the lactulose:mannitol check to seek out out the degree of permeability.

You’re right, begin off with simply common blood work. Perhaps get a fecal occult blood, and the subsequent check ought to be a breath check. Totally agree.


PHOEBE: For the breath check itself, I know there’s numerous disagreement over what constitutes a constructive outcome, which feeds into what individuals consider to be the overdiagnosis and fad nature of SIBO. How do you learn a SIBO breath check, and how should someone at house, per your suggestion, interpret their outcomes, or even re-evaluate a few of their outcomes they’ve received up to now from practitioners?

DR. FRATELLONE: The thing is – the problem is the testing shouldn’t be straightforward, however so, okay, you do the check, what it stands for, and we do all that. I feel they’ve to know that it’s designed to take a – it’s an general picture of three hours within the gut of what’s happening and what’s functioning. It’s a three-hour window, despite the fact that it’s one check. Lactulose, they’ve to know what lactulose is – man-made sugar that people can’t digest however SIBO micro organism like it.

Here you’re taking something that we don’t make but your bacteria use. That’s why I like the lactulose check. I do like the check versus different ones because of that. Individuals have to know that whenever you drink the lactulose it doesn’t cause that same sugar excessive that you simply get from other sugars like sucrose or fructose. I feel it is a good check. I feel the rationale we have now to say lactulose because, just for the listener on the market, it’s not the identical as lactose.

PHOEBE: The lactulose, from what I perceive, versus the glucose, is that it works in a larger span of the intestinal tract?

DR. FRATELLONE: Sure, it really works in a larger span. The opposite cause I exploit lactulose since you don’t get the same glycemic push that you simply do with the glucose.

PHOEBE: What’s the argument for the glucose?

DR. FRATELLONE: Now you’re going to get into physiology of bacteria. Lactulose picks up a majority of the bacteria, but glucose picks up some that lactulose gained’t decide up. I feel we should always do… Look, let’s not consider zebras; do the lactulose.

PHOEBE: Wait, zebras! What?

DR. FRATELLONE: In drugs I all the time inform the scholar once I train them, consider the illnesses that happen probably the most. Consider the factor that’s going to give you the most yield. Don’t think of a zebra that’s solely going to provide you a couple of things like the bacteria. Should you do lactulose you’re going to get 80% of your answers.

PHOEBE: What specific rely do you see as a constructive outcome for SIBO?

DR. FRATELLONE: This is where the restrictions – there are limitations to this check.

PHOEBE: Inform us concerning the limitations.


DR. FRATELLONE: The restrictions should do – one is that in case you’re not going to comply with a strict rule earlier than doing it, the restrictions are that for those who’re going to take dietary supplements and doing sure issues, you’re going to offset the check. For example, so two weeks earlier than the check, regardless that the individual’s been on, let’s say, my slippery elm [gutsy] tea, they will’t have any botanicals in their system, they will’t have any supplements resembling magnesium, vitamin C. Perhaps for the typical individual on the market, they’re not taking all these things, but to do a SIBO check in my office most people need to stop every part they’re taking.

PHOEBE: That is really good advice because this isn’t talked about. I had a question on right here about simply the 24-hour prep that’s beneficial when it comes to –

DR. FRATELLONE: No, that’s bullshit…

PHOEBE: Oh, okay, please go on.

DR. FRATELLONE: Twenty-four-hour prep isn’t – you need two-week prep to have a correct check.

PHOEBE: What does that appear to be?

DR. FRATELLONE: Meaning there’s no antimicrobial typical drugs within the last two weeks. There’s no botanicals and then no vitamins or nutraceuticals. That’s two weeks earlier than the check.

PHOEBE: What do you mean by a botanical?

DR. FRATELLONE: Meaning you’ll be able to’t take any herb, so there’s no medicine, no botanicals, and no nutraceuticals. That’s for 2 weeks, so that’s undoubtedly more than a 24-hour interval. Four days earlier than the check it’s a must to be sure that they didn’t do Vitamin C, magnesium, or any laxative. Twenty-four to 48 hours earlier than the check it’s a must to make sure that they haven’t any fiber, no lactose containing foods, no eggs, no spices. You only should eat lean meats, and you need to avoid spices and restrict fat and oils. I might guess that no one does this.

PHOEBE: Right, nicely, I mean, the one recommendation I received from the check itself or perhaps I assume my practitioner was the eat lean meats and rice and nothing else 24 hours prior.

DR. FRATELLONE: Okay, what about exercise?

PHOEBE: No recommendation on exercise.

DR. FRATELLONE: Okay, you’ll be able to’t train 12 hours earlier than the check.

PHOEBE: Why do this stuff throw off the check? Why does train throw off the checks?

DR. FRATELLONE: Vigorous exercise modifications your entire biochemistry of the gut because you produce extra lactic acid.

PHOEBE: Then what occurs?

DR. FRATELLONE: That’s going to vary the outcomes of the check. You get a false constructive check.

PHOEBE: Why would the lactic acid create a false constructive check?

DR. FRATELLONE: The lactic acid then affects the pH, after which it causes more intestinal permeability. You’re not going to see the same bacteria exercise versus non-exercise. Research have been achieved where individuals didn’t train, and you got micro organism current. Individuals exercised vigorously, and the bacteria have been masked by the production of lactic acid.

PHOEBE: Wait, so that you may get a false destructive in case you exercised.

DR. FRATELLONE: That’s what I meant, false unfavorable. Yeah, so I feel, whenever you do a SIBO check, you need to hand out a sheet that says what precisely you need to avoid.

PHOEBE: I’m curious because I truly – I didn’t understand egg wasn’t allowed. What would occur in case you had just egg and white rice as an alternative of hen and white rice?

DR. FRATELLONE: You get a false destructive check.

PHOEBE: I assume, I mean, this is one thing I’ve discovered. I’m a chef, and doing something that’s so restricted like that, for me, I’m all the time making an attempt to search for the loopholes. I’m like can I add a tablespoon of sesame oil to this rice?

DR. FRATELLONE: Yeah, okay, but that would change the check.

PHOEBE: Proper, that is nice to know as a result of I’ve gotten the question from other individuals too. Are these little things truly going to make a distinction, or are they only telling me to try this?

DR. FRATELLONE: I feel the rationale why it makes a distinction – as a result of once you take a look at making the – in the event you take a look at deciphering the outcomes, there’s a specificity and a sensitivity. The sensitivity is simply 40% for a breath check and 80% specificity. With that long vary, 40% sensitivity, 80% specificity, I feel you must make it possible for the prep is completed exactly proper.

PHOEBE: If these are the instruments out there, we’ve to be additional sure that we’re not going to offset the outcomes.

DR. FRATELLONE: Proper, and when you consider extra statistics carried out, sensitivity and specificity of the lactulose check to diagnose SIBO is 31% delicate and 86% particular. That’s not great odds.

PHOEBE: That leads me again to the question is why do the check?

DR. FRATELLONE: Why can we give chemo? It’s one of the best of what we’ve got, and it creates income for the corporate that’s making the kits. Look, I just gave you the quote. These are the exact sensitivity and specificity of the results of the exams. If it’s 31 delicate and solely 86 particular, it’s not – it’s an okay check.

It’s not the most effective check available on the market, but that’s all we now have.

PHOEBE: I assume that just feeds into the query then – I consider people who find themselves skeptical of if SIBO is actual. If we’re utilizing this one check as the primary barometer for a way many people have it to start with and the check is unreliable, then…

DR. FRATELLONE: Whenever you get a rise within the hydrogen 20 elements per million above baseline inside the first hour and a half, that’s diagnostic for SIBO.

PHOEBE: There’s nothing else. What else might probably trigger that?


DR. FRATELLONE: Nothing else, you’re right. I imply, look, I feel the check is beneficial, but I would like more testing. I would like extra of a selected check like the one that’s coming out the place we’ll offer you extra – it might give you the analysis but provide the actual causes. What does that imply if you’re – say you’re 25 elements per million within the first 90 minutes. You’ve got SIBO. What does that inform you?

PHOEBE: It tells you you’ve gotten different issues possible.

DR. FRATELLONE: Yes, precisely, that’s the point. In case you had another check that gave extra particular, do this check since you get the analysis and the causes.

PHOEBE: Yeah, no, I mean, you’re preaching to the choir. I get it.

DR. FRATELLONE: You then say what – okay, so we already talked about, sure, it’s the one check we’ve got. The restrictions in addition to the truth that everyone didn’t comply with the same prep, solely 33% of sufferers are recognized with SIBO once they do the breath check, only 33%. This is the issue. We shouldn’t have a gold commonplace check for SIBO. That’s the bottom line. The underside line is cardiac catheterization is the gold normal for making a analysis of coronary artery disease. We should not have a gold normal for making a analysis of SIBO. It solely captures 33%. You’re missing 67%.

PHOEBE: Sixty-seven % of people that truly do have SIBO.

DR. FRATELLONE: It’s only capable of make a analysis about one-third, which is about 33%. You’re lacking different individuals. They could have one thing else happening, and also you simply missed it. You probably did a check, and it comes up unfavourable for SIBO. You don’t deal with the patients, and their symptoms persist. I feel that goes again to why we’d like a extra specific check. There are specific micro organism in sure people that don’t produce hydrogen, and that’s who you’re missing.

PHOEBE: I see why you would like to do different things first, so let’s speak about what different issues first which might be more accessible to the overall population individuals can flip to. Let’s go to this example of Viome. Viome goes to be supplying you with a extra complete image of your microbiome as an entire, right?

DR. FRATELLONE: Right, and it’s going to offer you – it’s the first step after a breath check, and even not doing the breath check, that it tells you exactly what’s happening within the microbiome. Perhaps not all the things however you’re getting a reasonably good assessment.

PHOEBE: Would you recommend doing something like that earlier than you even do a breath check? Just get a common lay of the land.

DR. FRATELLONE: I might, sure. I really like that.

PHOEBE: Okay, cool.

DR. FRATELLONE: I feel that’s a better concept. For me, who’s like a scientist and needs to figure out, I need to know the underlying trigger, so that check provides me the underlying cause. The breath check doesn’t inform me anything.

PHOEBE: Viome, I haven’t executed it myself. I’ve executed, I feel, uBiome a very long time ago, however Viome provides you with recommendation based mostly on what they’ve truly discovered, proper?

DR. FRATELLONE: Which is sweet, it’s good. I like that. I feel that’s a very good check. It takes the guess work out. It helps you. I like corporations which have spent a while to inform the sufferers this is what you have to take.

PHOEBE: Are there some other examples apart from Viome of…

DR. FRATELLONE: Onegevity popping out.

PHOEBE: That’s not a direct-to-consumer check.

DR. FRATELLONE: I feel they’re arising with – look, since all these checks have come up, what they have is they have plenty of apps now. I feel Viome is the one that I like one of the best and the one I exploit probably the most.

PHOEBE: That’s very helpful recommendation for individuals who simply need to – who perhaps can’t find a practical drugs doctor or anybody integrative with a great grasp on the testing for them to attempt some issues themselves at residence to get some solutions.

DR. FRATELLONE: Right, they should get check executed. It tells you about some vitamin, proper? It tells you about some toxins in your gut. It tells you what foods you might have, so I feel it does assist the affected person. I feel it’s well worth the cash to get it achieved.

PHOEBE: How about, that is switching gears somewhat bit, the food sensitivity at-home testing, the IgG reactivity check?


DR. FRATELLONE: I don’t want at residence. I do food sensitivity testing in Connecticut, and in New York, I do Connecticut testing. I like IgG by blood.

PHOEBE: The IgG reactivity check at house that just used the finger prick, are they useful?

DR. FRATELLONE: I feel they’re good, but they’re not as sensitive as direct blood.

PHOEBE: How should somebody interpret that sort of testing? Clearly, when you’ve got leaky gut/SIBO, you’re going to have food sensitivity.

DR. FRATELLONE: The issue with this type of testing with IgG is should you’re gluten free, the check may show that you simply’re – the IgG can be unfavourable for gluten since you’ve been staying away from it for therefore lengthy, so there’s limitations to that check. See, for this reason I feel a better – and this incorporates what you’re speaking about. I feel you do the check. You do the check, but then you definitely sit down and analyze all of the reviews and provide you with a plan. Should you’ve been staying away from carrots, it’s not going to return up, but you don’t need the individual to eat the carrots in the event that they’re allergic to it. Somebody who undoubtedly can’t have gluten but you need to see if they’re allergic to gluten, what are you going to inform them, to go back on gluten for 2 weeks in order that you realize? That’s why the sensitivity of that check is just not good, however it provides clues. As an example, the individual says, geez, I haven’t never had a inexperienced pepper, however green peppers came up on the check to be constructive.

PHOEBE: How is that potential? Just like the gluten, in the event you don’t have it in your system, how can it…

DR. FRATELLONE: They really have antibodies of their gut, you see?

PHOEBE: The results that you simply do get for things you’re delicate to are for actual, however it could possibly be lacking something else.

DR. FRATELLONE: Yes, it’s missing, but the ones that you simply get constructive we know are actual allergic reactions.

PHOEBE: Do you assume that’s – on the grand spectrum of all these exams, where does that fall within the order of priority?

DR. FRATELLONE: Oh, I get that at the first visit.

PHOEBE: You get each check the primary visit.

DR. FRATELLONE: No, I mean, I feel – look, after I speak to the affected person they usually say, “Geez, I attempted this food plan, this weight loss plan, I did this – I did an elimination weight loss plan. I did the DASH eating regimen.” I stated, “Did you ever have food sensitivity testing?” “Yeah, I had it by skin.” “No, did you have got it by blood?” “No.” Then it’s a part of the initial program. I don’t want individuals to assume that they arrive here, they usually spend $2,000 for testing. I don’t do this. Every patient is individualized based mostly on the history and physical by either myself or the naturopathic physician that we work –that I work with. I might say that 80% of the sufferers do get a meals sensitivity check on the primary assembly.

PHOEBE: Okay, lastly, as a result of we’re going to wrap this up, lots of issues to consider, a variety of exams, what about fungal overgrowth, candida? You mentioned it earlier. I do know it’s a bit more durable to test for, which is why typically occasions individuals check for SIBO first.

DR. FRATELLONE: You must assume – look, there’s a e-book years ago referred to as The Yeast Connection. I feel, typically, all of us have yeast. I don’t assume we need to do in depth testing or give a analysis, oh, you might have yeast overgrowth. I feel we’ve to imagine that when you have SIBO you’ve yeast. I don’t assume we should always go – yeah, if the individual now did all the workup they usually treated the SIBO they usually’re nonetheless having symptoms, properly, perhaps then I might search for a selected candida species by either a swab, a blood check, however to do to everyone, we reside in a world that yeast is there all the time.

PHOEBE: How does that have an effect on the remedy plan?

DR. FRATELLONE: Look, I’m an MD, so I’ve the advantage that I may give a mixture. I’d give Diflucan 100 mg twice a day for three days, and do it for each month for three days out of the month. While on the days that you simply’re not doing Diflucan, you’re doing Berberine, pau d’arco, and positively, propiolic acid to kill the yeast. I’ve the supply to do typical meds and integrative meds.

PHOEBE: That’s superb. Dr. Fratellone, is there anything that you want individuals at residence who’re grappling with IBS signs, questioning if they need to get a SIBO check – do you’ve got any recommendation for them on the most effective subsequent steps or anything to remember?

DR. FRATELLONE: Yeah, I feel the one that’s struggling with numerous points and perhaps not be related to gut, it comes right down to that it’s in all probability the intestine. The intestine, again, is the pathway, so I feel you need to actually get to have an excellent assessment of your intestine. You would do a few of this house testing, however you shouldn’t be your personal physician. You possibly can get this house testing. You continue to have to hunt a healthcare skilled who specializes on this that will help you interpret it. Having this testing now out there that folks get and check themselves, a number of the occasions they’re following issues which may not be right.

Most of them are usually not taking herbs, and that’s an obstacle. I feel Mother Nature might remedy all the issues.

PHOEBE: I truly assume that lots of people who’re making an attempt to go it alone at residence truly are turning to the herbs as a result of they will get them. They don’t need a prescription.

DR. FRATELLONE: Sure, which is sweet.

PHOEBE: Your point could be very pertinent that there are such a lot of things that would go flawed. I mean, I went by way of my physician who’s fantastic, and I still didn’t know concerning the exercise. I nonetheless didn’t find out about a few of these different prep parts, so it’s simply essential to remember all of this stuff. If you’ll attempt – if you’ll spend the cash because it is cash even should you’re doing it at house without the help of a physician to have the breath check.

DR. FRATELLONE: There’s lots of – like Healthline, which is on the web, they’ve loads of good info. You may comply with these major – Healthline and say this is how it is best to do it. I feel we’re all combined up because there’s so much availability of stuff on the web. We don’t know what we’re reading and what’s proper or improper.

PHOEBE: Right, that is the central drawback of recent drugs in addition to many other issues.

DR. FRATELLONE: I hope this helps.

PHOEBE: Yeah, thank you a lot for taking the time to talk with us. It was actual fascinating to hear your strategy. I additionally love your willingness to forged doubt or question some of these methodologies. I feel it’s necessary for individuals to hear. Particularly with SIBO, there’s a lot that’s still unknown. At the end of the day, typically we’re at the mercy of one of the best obtainable, but I feel it’s necessary to think about that there are other ways to pores and skin a fish or regardless of the saying goes when it comes to investigating the gut as an entire.

DR. FRATELLONE: Thanks a lot for the opportunity. I sit up for listening to this.

Disclaimer: The knowledge in this podcast does not present medical advice, professional analysis, opinion, or remedy. The knowledge mentioned is for instructional functions solely and is not an alternative to medical or skilled care.

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